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Dear Mr Sittampalam The DfT doesn't have a copy of NfM 99- they're no longer published. However, we believe ATOC is planning on releasing these as CD ROMs in future to a select audience (basically those who used to receive the printed versions). As I understand it this will be for a reasonable fee, but for full details please contact Tony Ewers Customer Relations Manager ATOC 3rd Floor 40 Bernard Street London WC1N 1BY And I have cc'd him on this email to assist you. Hope that this helps, but if you are unhappy with the way the Department has handled your request or with the decisions made in relation to your request you may complain within two calendar months of the date of this letter by writing to me at the address (below).

Please see attached details of the DfT*s complaints procedure and your right to complain to the Information Commissioner. Rgds Michael Dollin Fares Ticketing and Passenger Benefits Manager Department for Transport Great Minster House 76 Marsham Street London SW1P 4DR Department for Transport Freedom of Information Appeals & Complaints Procedure You have the right to complain about the way in which your request for information was handled and/or about the decision not to disclose all or part of the information requested. In addition a complaint can be made that Department has not complied with its Freedom of Information Publication Scheme.

Your appeal or complaint will be acknowledged and you will be advised of a target date by which to expect a response. Initially your complaint will be re-considered by the official who dealt with your request for information. If, after careful consideration, that official decides that his/her decision was correct, your appeal or complaint will automatically be referred to a senior forum who will conduct a further review. Any final decision concerning an appeal from a decision will be made by the Director General of Rail. You will be advised of the outcome of your complaint and if a decision is taken to disclose information originally withheld this will be done as soon as possible. If you are not content with the outcome of the review, you have the right to apply directly to the Information Commissioner for a decision.

The Information Commissioner can be contacted at: Information Commissioner*s Office Wycliffe House Water Lane Wilmslow Cheshire SK9 5AF >>>Ganesh Sittampalam 19:38:33 >>>Dear Sir or Madam, Do you hold a copy of the most recent railways 'National Fares Manual' (NFM 99)? If so, I request a copy under the Freedom of Information Act as it does not seem to be readily available by any other means - the National Rail website only has NFM 98. Yours faithfully, Ganesh Sittampalam. Dear Mr Sittampalam Have spoken with Tony when his email bounced. The fares manuals will be available as a CD ROM from The Stationery Office- £14.95 incl postage. [1]www.tsoshop.co.uk They're not available yet but are expected so in the neext few weeks. This will be for NfM 100, NfM 99 information can only be accessed through the [2]www.nationalrail.co.uk journey planner rgds Michael Dollin Michael Dollin Manager Fares Ticketing and Passenger Benefits team, Operations North and MML DfT Rail 020 7944 4557 Zone 33, 3rd Floor Great Minster House 76 Marsham Street, London SW1P 4DR >>>Ganesh Sittampalam 19:38:33 >>>Dear Sir or Madam, Do you hold a copy of the most recent railways 'National Fares Manual' (NFM 99)?

If so, I request a copy under the Freedom of Information Act as it does not seem to be readily available by any other means - the National Rail website only has NFM 98. Yours faithfully, Ganesh Sittampalam. Dear Mr Sittampalam In answer to your question, we have access to industry systems which hold fares data, and run a fares checking system that checks regulated fares 3 times a year (at each of the times when they change). Hope this helps rgds Michael Michael Dollin Manager Fares Ticketing and Passenger Benefits team, Operations North and MML DfT Rail 020 7944 4557 Zone 33, 3rd Floor Great Minster House 76 Marsham Street, London SW1P 4DR >>>Ganesh Sittampalam 21:04:54 >>>Dear Mr Dollin, Thanks for the information. It's a shame that information that was previously freely available on the web will now be charged for.

If you don't have the fares manual, how do you check that the TOC price rises are within the appropriate limits? Or is that someone else's job?

Regards, Ganesh.

On Feb 19, 8:08 pm, Mark Morton wrote: >I think Peter was referring to installing it on a computer that isn't >running Windows. I've got the program running ok, but I was wondering if the fare data could be converted into something more usable by other (i.e. Custom made) software. This would allow it to be used on a non-windows computer as Richard suggested. The problem is that the faredata.dat file seems to be in a, proprietary format (not suprising though!) so it's pretty difficult to read its contents directly - I can't even see any station codes in the file! Peter Olof Lagerkvist 19.02.07 12:39. Anglia Traveller wrote: The helpfile have a big section about tickets from/to/around London zonal area, that made me understand some of the logics behind all these 'ZONE U1*' etc notations on tickets.

But I also found this: 'Travelcards issued for travel in zones 4, 5 and 6 (or any combination including one of these zones) are valid throughout the Croydon Tramlink network, EXCEPT to or from the following stops: Wimbledon, Dundonald Road and Merton Park. Customers travelling to or from these three stops need a travelcard valid in zone 3.' But that is not true nowadays, is it? Are not all travelcards valid in any of zones 3, 4, 5 or 6 valid throughout the Tramlink network? -- Olof Lagerkvist ICQ: 724451 Web: Richard Fairhurst 19.02.07 12:43. On Feb 19, 10:22 pm, 'Peter Smyth' wrote: >Anyone know what a 'Full Day Return' is? For example London - Reading has a >SDR (Standard Day Return) for 28.30 and a SDN (Full Day Return) for 31.20.

I did Wick-Penzance and one of the options was a half day return! I think there's a lot of tickets listed in the system which have zero availability e.g. A FNW Virgin offer from Manchester-Euston @ £25 (FNW no longer exist for a start!) and some MML advance booking tickets for Manchester-London but neither of these show up in QJump if you click the 'show all fares' thingy.

Maybe they've been kept just in case something equivalent is to be used in the future. Peter Joe Patrick 19.02.07 14:41. >Anyone know what a 'Full Day Return' is? For example London - Reading has a >SDR (Standard Day Return) for 28.30 and a SDN (Full Day Return) for 31.20. >>It is listed in Section E of the NFM on page E108, however the conditions >seem identical to the SDR.

So what is the point of this ticket? It's for FGW to sell on trains to people who boarded at a station with a ticket office and failed to pay, under the NCoC so they can get more money as opposed to selling the SOR. Joe Patrick 19.02.07 14:51.

On 19 Feb 2007 12:20:14, 'naked_draughtsman' wrote: >>The problem is that the faredata.dat file seems to be in a, >proprietary format (not suprising though!) so it's pretty difficult to >read its contents directly - I can't even see any station codes in the >file! Station codes seem to be in the file refdata.dat For example, the TLC for Newport is NWP - if you search for it, it's adjacent to NEWPORT GWENT and NEWPORT S.WALES, with Newport's NLC code 3674 contained in two alpha-numeric strings. Paul Harley Nick 19.02.07 16:24. On 19 Feb 2007 14:51:07, 'Joe Patrick' wrote: >>I can't get any former West Midlands County zonal based season tickets >or any rovers/rangers aside from Greenways.

Any one else have this >problem? Rovers are hard to find, due to the odd abbreviations used. For example, if you want an all-line rail rover, put in your home station as the origin and FRM OF BRIT 7DY as the destination. It will then offer you the Standard Class rover @ £375 and the First Class @ £565. Another example is the Freedom of Wales Flexipass, which is WALES PASS 4IN8. I can now understand why some ticket office staff ask a colleague for help when faced with a request for a rarely sold ticket! Paul Harley Yorkie 20.02.07 00:51.

On Feb 19, 4:57 pm, John Ruddy wrote: >This is all very well, but how do we get the fares the program shows us? >Can we just march up to a station and say 'I want a VFP from X to Y for >£10'? No, because some of those fares are promotional fares (e.g. The Virgin Traveller First Class 5p singles). But using this software we can now look up any Saver, Cheap Day Return etc, and it will display the TOC that sets the fare, along with the restriction code and below that code it will explain what the code means.

Before, we had to find out what the code was using some other method, then look up the code in Section E of the fares manual. This made it awkward and time consuming to use. If I don't like the look of the restrictions on a certain Saver, then now I can easily decide not to purchase it, and instead purchase alternative(s). For example, I don't like the look of a York to Derby, priced by MML 'Not before 9am' saver, so I can now easily see that NT set the York- Sheffield fare which is 'Valid by any train':-) It's then possible to go on a MML service between, say, Leeds/Donny and Sheffield and MML cannot enforce their draconian 'Non-London savers are not valid before 9am' rule:-D.

Chris Johns 20.02.07 02:25. On Tue, 20 Feb 2007, Yorkie wrote: >But using this software we can now look up any Saver, Cheap Day Return >etc, and it will display the TOC that sets the fare, along with the >restriction code and below that code it will explain what the code >means. I downloaded this last night. I noticed there is no York - Glasshoughton fare, tho I have had a ticket (CDR) for this journey (issued at York station). There seem to be some off 999 quid TPX fares - they sound like a bargain:).

-- Chris Johns Neil Williams 20.02.07 02:41. In message, at 14:41:29 on Mon, 19 Feb 2007, Joe Patrick remarked: >>Anyone know what a 'Full Day Return' is? For example London - Reading has a >>SDR (Standard Day Return) for 28.30 and a SDN (Full Day Return) for 31.20.

>>>>It is listed in Section E of the NFM on page E108, however the conditions >>seem identical to the SDR. So what is the point of this ticket? >>It's for FGW to sell on trains to people who boarded at a station with >a ticket office and failed to pay, under the NCoC so they can get more >money as opposed to selling the SOR.

MML have a variant of this. NOT-STP, the SOS is £62 compared to a SOR of £109; via Grantham to KGX it's the more expected £48 vs £96. -- Roland Perry Joe Patrick 20.02.07 06:04. >For example, if you want an all-line rail rover, put in your home >station as the origin and FRM OF BRIT 7DY as the destination. It will >then offer you the Standard Class rover @ £375 and the First Class @ >£565. Another example is the Freedom of Wales Flexipass, which is >WALES PASS 4IN8. >>I can now understand why some ticket office staff ask a colleague for >help when faced with a request for a rarely sold ticket!

Thanks, Paul & Nick. I've been able to get lots, but can't get certain ones to work like FOSW or FOSS. I can't get the ALR to work with a Priv either. I'm also having trouble getting seasons for W Midlands zones. If you type an * it will show you all possible stations/rover types/ zones. John Ruddy 20.02.07 07:57. Yorkie wrote: >On Feb 19, 4:57 pm, John Ruddy wrote: >>This is all very well, but how do we get the fares the program shows us?

>>Can we just march up to a station and say 'I want a VFP from X to Y for >>£10'? >>No, because some of those fares are promotional fares (e.g. The Virgin >Traveller First Class 5p singles). >>But using this software we can now look up any Saver, Cheap Day Return >etc, and it will display the TOC that sets the fare, along with the >restriction code and below that code it will explain what the code >means. >>Before, we had to find out what the code was using some other method, >then look up the code in Section E of the fares manual. This made it >awkward and time consuming to use.

>>If I don't like the look of the restrictions on a certain Saver, then >now I can easily decide not to purchase it, and instead purchase >alternative(s). >>For example, I don't like the look of a York to Derby, priced by MML >'Not before 9am' saver, so I can now easily see that NT set the York- >Sheffield fare which is 'Valid by any train':-) It's then possible to >go on a MML service between, say, Leeds/Donny and Sheffield and MML >cannot enforce their draconian 'Non-London savers are not valid before >9am' rule:-D. >I was looking at some of the regular Virgin Advance fares, for example. I think the big problem (and its with all the train websites) is that they dont allow enough felxibility - I want to be able to say 'I want the cheapest fare on any train travelling that week', so that I can plan my trip around the journey. This is ideal for a leisure journey.

The ticketing websites seem geared to the traveller who has to travel at a particular time (give or take an hour), and then shows only those fares availble on those trains. Its even more frustrating seeing fares from here to Scotland for a tenner, and not being able to find trains on which they are available. Neil Williams 20. Wms 8.4 Crack Free Download. 02.07 08:03. On Feb 19, 6:40 pm, 'Paul Scott' wrote: >'naked_draughtsman' wrote in message >>news.130@v45g2000cwv.googlegroups.com.

>>>Is it a public release or is it just an error which has made it >>available to the public? >>When ATOC change it in the next few days we'll know it was an error! I've just had a look at the website today and it's been refreshed with new information and the link has been removed from the homepage, but you can still download it using the direct link. Peter tfh of Hednesford 20.02.07 13:23. On 20 Feb, 16:25, Michael Hoffman wrote: [.] >There are a number of interesting looking zonal destinations such as: >>ZONE 4 FOUR (SC >ZONE C5 >ZONE E1 >ZONE G123456 # Glasgow? >ZONE L1256 ZONES >ZONE R16SF >ZONE S2C The first one relates to a Senior Citizen Railcard promotion way back in BR days. There should also be Zones 1 - 3 in the same style, unless they've been removed from the system and Zone 4 forgotten.

The others could also relate to promotions, or even be destinations added for training purposes only (if that sort of thing still happens). Michael Hoffman 20.02.07 18:23. Ross-a-travelling wrote: >On 20 Feb, 16:25, Michael Hoffman wrote: >[.] >>There are a number of interesting looking zonal destinations such as: >>>>ZONE 4 FOUR (SC >>ZONE C5 >>ZONE E1 >>ZONE G123456 # Glasgow?

>>ZONE L1256 ZONES >>ZONE R16SF >>ZONE S2C >>The first one relates to a Senior Citizen Railcard promotion way back >in BR days. There should also be Zones 1 - 3 in the same style, unless >they've been removed from the system and Zone 4 forgotten. -- Michael Hoffman Neil Williams 20.02.07 23:34. On Feb 21, 2:07 am, 'Ross-a-travelling' wrote: >No more than Regional Railways Central's Single On Train fares were, >or than were Regional Railways' SDR @ 2xSDS when there was also a >lower priced SDR available. I've since noticed that the SDR was not 2xSDS, which is the usual price for such things, so as such the SDR is a 'discounted' ticket. FWIW, pre-PFs, Merseyrail on-train inspectors (when you encountered such a rare thing) would only issue standard singles, no returns, as I recall. Might be the same reason.

Neil Richard Fairhurst 21.02.07 01:14. On Feb 19, 8:20 pm, 'naked_draughtsman' wrote: >The problem is that the faredata.dat file seems to be in a, >proprietary format (not suprising though!) so it's pretty difficult to >read its contents directly - I can't even see any station codes in the >file! I got some of the way into parsing it last night. Refdata.dat is pretty easy to break into individual records.

Faredata.dat took a bit more effort but succumbed in the end. Now all I have to do is work out what each record actually means.:) Richard Michael Hoffman 21.02.07 01:46.

Richard Fairhurst wrote: >On Feb 19, 8:20 pm, 'naked_draughtsman' >wrote: >>The problem is that the faredata.dat file seems to be in a, >>proprietary format (not suprising though!) so it's pretty difficult to >>read its contents directly - I can't even see any station codes in the >>file! >>I got some of the way into parsing it last night. Refdata.dat is >pretty easy to break into individual records. Of course it has all sorts of non-UK stations in it, like for PARIS MONTPARNASSE, HEIDELBERG HBF, and WARSZAWA.

Too bad there are no fares for these in the system. -- Michael Hoffman Joe Patrick 21.02.07 02:40. On 23 Feb, 11:41, Neil Sunderland wrote: >naked_draughtsman wrote: >>>I did Wick-Penzance and one of the options was a half day return!

I can't find that; there's a SVH 'Saver Half Return', which is actually a single and therefore presumably is a shortening of 'Saver Single priced at half the return fare' [rather than the normal 50p/£1 off]. I've found these for a couple of VXC priced journeys into Cornwall. >Try Dalmally-Oban. The first option is a teensy bit pricey:O Just slightly! I think the system uses 999.00 as 'no fare currently available', though; it appears quite often for ticket types which seem quite sensible but which possibly aren't in use at the moment, such as the Highland Railcard Child fare in your example. Ken 23.02.07 06:26. 'Ross-a-travelling' wrote in message news.770@a75g2000cwd.googlegroups.com.

>>Try Dalmally-Oban. The first option is a teensy bit pricey:O >>Just slightly! >>I think the system uses 999.00 as 'no fare currently available', >though; it appears quite often for ticket types which seem quite >sensible but which possibly aren't in use at the moment, such as the >Highland Railcard Child fare in your example. Actually the fare is available, if you search for child fares it will come up as 2.00. Presumably the database has to have an adult and a child price for every fare so they put the adult fare as 999.00 to prevent it being sold to an adult inadvertently. Peter Smyth Ross-a-travelling 23.02.07 15:18.

On 23 Feb, 18:06, 'Peter Smyth' wrote: >'Ross-a-travelling' wrote in message >>>>Try Dalmally-Oban. The first option is a teensy bit pricey:O >>>Just slightly! >>>I think the system uses 999. Rfactor Saloon Stox Download Firefox. 00 as 'no fare currently available', >>though; it appears quite often for ticket types which seem quite >>sensible but which possibly aren't in use at the moment, such as the >>Highland Railcard Child fare in your example.

>>Actually the fare is available, if you search for child fares it will come >up as 2.00. Presumably the database has to have an adult and a child price >for every fare so they put the adult fare as 999.00 to prevent it being sold >to an adult inadvertently.

I'd not noticed that! I've noticed that a few CT AP tickets are shown with the £999 fare where the ticket is no longer sold, so I just assumed that it was used the same way in all instances. Serves me right for assuming.;o) R. Csi.@ukgateway.net 24.02.07 09:54.

'David Buttery' wrote in message news:Xns98E1E67A9FA4Erabbiteergmailcom@216.196.109.145. >For those of us for whom this is not obvious: >>What is the URL? >Where on that site does one find the specific section/file you mention? >Is registration needed? >If so, is access restricted?

It was advertised on the home page but has been removed. You still seem to be able to download it from that link though. You don't need to register. It's not restricted at the moment. One of the few good things about google groups is that you trace back though an entrie thread. Not seem any way to do this in outlook express (yet) -- peter Cheap train tickets database Email sent to this address is generally deleted upon arrival Visit website if you want to contact me John Salmon 24.02.07 16:26.

On 20 Feb, 00:32, Paul Harley wrote: >On 19 Feb 2007 14:51:07, 'Joe Patrick' >wrote: >>>>>I can't get any former West Midlands County zonal based season tickets >>or any rovers/rangers aside from Greenways. Any one else have this >>problem? >>Rovers are hard to find, due to the odd abbreviations used. >>For example, if you want an all-line rail rover, put in your home >station as the origin and FRM OF BRIT 7DY as the destination. It will >then offer you the Standard Class rover @ £375 and the First Class @ >£565. Another example is the Freedom of Wales Flexipass, which is >WALES PASS 4IN8.

>>I can now understand why some ticket office staff ask a colleague for >help when faced with a request for a rarely sold ticket! >>Paul Harley Has anyone managed to find the East Midlands Rover? James Roland Perry 25.02.07 07:43. In message, at 13:22:05 on Sun, 25 Feb 2007, G remarked: >>>One of the few good things about google groups is that you trace back >>>though an entrie thread. Not seem any way to do this in outlook express >>>(yet) >>>>View ->Current View ->Show all messages works for me in OE. >>>But only if the USENET server still has the messages available.

>Google Groups retains all messages indefinitely. So get a newsreader that keeps a local copy of the posts (then you can read usenet on the train too).

-- Roland Perry G 25.02.07 08:45. Ross-a-travelling wrote: >>Try Dalmally-Oban. The first option is a teensy bit pricey:O >>Just slightly! >>I think the system uses 999.00 as 'no fare currently available', >though; it appears quite often for ticket types which seem quite >sensible but which possibly aren't in use at the moment, such as the >Highland Railcard Child fare in your example. Ah, that explains it. Might be a bit confusing if your ticket actually was £999, though.

The only reason I looked was to check the price of the ticket I bought last week. Why would Scotrail bother putting up a poster about Cheap Day Returns on the platform at Dalmally when they don't actually sell one? (OK, I know I could have got one to Glasgow.

I just didn't want to!) Neil Sunderland -- Braunton, Devon Please observe the Reply-To address. NP: Jimmy Rogers with Ronnie Earl & The Broadcasters - Rock This House Ken Ward 27.02.07 03:47.